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| Thursday, April 20, 2006 |
| Law School Rankings & Jobs |
I've been following and participating some in the discussion re public interest - friendly law schools over at Blonde Justice, since my school is really very public interest driven. the discussion included some advice from those saying, "it doesn't matter what you want to do, you should always go to the best school you can get into" (i.e., highest ranked). Another commenter suggested that the better path for someone devoted to public interest work is actually go to the cheapest law school you can get into, and then make up for the lack of prestige and ranking position with internships and performance.
I write separately to point out that sometimes the cheapest school is going to be that lower ranked school, due to the availability of scholarship money. I believe this applies to many areas of law - I am NOT coming from a public interest perspective. I'm coming from the perspective of "i have two kids to put through college in less than 10 years, and therefore cannot afford to go to the most expensive school."
The school that I am attending was my safety school, and was considerably lower ranked than all the other schools i applied to and got into. The highest ranked law school I got into was Cornell, as well as a few ranked in the 30's (many of them have now slipped to the 40's). Where I am in school was ranked in the 70's at the time. On paper, I looked better than their average. They wanted to up their average. The result? Scholarship $.
I (obviously) went to the lower ranked school, got a good chunk of guaranteed scholarship money for all 3 years, and despite the low ranking, I am going to be working this coming summer for a firm that is ranked in the top 25 nation-wide by the Vault, and in the top 100 in many other nation-wide surveys.
I had a very hard time choosing to go to the lower ranked school. I have spent every year since graduation from my undergrad institution wanting to hide under a rock rather than say where i went to school. I really loved the idea of going to a law school that would impress people. Did I love that idea more than the idea of living in a city that I wanted to live in? Did I love that idea more than the idea of not moving my children every three years? Did I love that more than the idea of having less debt upon graduation so that I can pay if off ASAP and start contributing to a college fund for my kids? Nope. Clearly, nope.
[i also must state that part of my decision was based on my balance of school and parenting - a lower ranked and notably less competitive school meant to me that i'd have more time to be a mom to my daughters and a partner to my love.]
When you go to a lower ranked school, locale really plays a huge part in your job placement issue. You can't go to a lower ranked school in San Francisco and hope to get a top job in NY. Not realistically, I do not think. I knew that going in. My Ex went to a 3rd or 4th tier school and his only options were within that state. Outside that state, no one ever heard of the damned school. [he ended up going on and getting a ph.d., and now teaches at a pretty decent school, so even for him, it was far from a death knell.] In San Francisco, we had Golden Gate Law School, and people could work in very prestigious places after graduating from there - IN the bay area. I'm sure I couldn't have taken a degree from that school and gotten a job straight from school at a big name firm here in Boston. I think that's the case for my school, too, although perhaps to a lesser degree, b/c Golden Gate is also a 4th tier school, and my school has an odd pipeline of reputation with the San Francisco Bay Area. and Alaska. Yes, Alaska.
during OCI, 80% of the firms were from Massachusetts. Do not quote me on this, b/c I also was not interested in applying to the out-of-state, or even out of Boston firms, for the whole "I will not move my kids again" statement from above. The Boston firms hire a lot of people from my school. Not as many as from Harvard, but still, the numbers are NOT insignificant. Neither are the firms. And then if someone gets picked up by a firm that has Boston and other offices, they do have the option of going to other offices, of course depending on the firm.
I knew it was a risk, and that it would depend on my performance. I knew that I was likely going to be limited to looking at Boston jobs, and that I would be competing against Harvard students as well as BU and BC. But I also had the counterweights of a scholarship, a pull to the area, and a really good vibe from the school.
As long as all factors are realistically considered, the school's ranking (perhaps better to say the school's notoriety or prestige) should not be the decision-maker. There are times when a lower ranked school has its advantages, financially and otherwise. |
posted by Zuska @ 1:49 PM   |
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| 3 Comments: |
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It may be niave but I have never cared about ranking, not only becase my LSAT score was so lame, but because I have no intention of working at a big law firm where that would matter. After years of being my own boss, I imagine I'll find work at a small to mid-size firm and then eventually start my own practice or partner with one other lawyer. Who knows though. Right now I have to concentrate on getting in somewhere this year or next.
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You make excellent points. It's far too complicated and important a decision to make on the basis of one rather flawed ranking system.
In case anyone reads this, though, who is still debating -- don't give up too quickly on the scholarship negotiation. I did it, and it worked. However, the schools are very very close to each other in the rankings, and frankly not all that much of a price difference.
What it always comes down to though is how you make it work for yourself. And you're obviously making it work for yourself very well indeed. Congrats on the job.
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I think you make fine points, but to be fair, you must realize that your personal experience is more of an exception than a rule.
Realistically, how many of the people you graduated with from your lower-ranked school are privileged to be in the position you are in working for a top-notch Vault firm? 5% of the class? 10% at best?
The only time I would recommend someone choose the "cheapest" school over the "highest ranked" school is if the applicant knew beforehand that he/she wanted to enter public interest law or a job with the government. It is certainly not worth attending an "elite" school for $100K+ in tuition if plan on making no more than $50-$60/year.
However, if you have your sights set on a lucrative career in private practice (at law firms large or small), I would STRONGLY advice against attending the "cheapest" school over a higher-ranked school.
First of all, schools in the Top 10-15 range have average private practice salaries in the $125-$145K range, and their national reputations open doors from coast-to-coast. At schools like Columbia, Michigan, and even Cornell, you can land a job at a prestigious Vault firm even if you are in the bottom 1/2 of your class.
The same cannot be said of any 2nd, 3rd, or 4th tier law school. At lower-tiered law schools, you'll likely need to be in the Top 10%, with Law Review, and a stellar personality just to make it through the callbacks at most large law firms. The rare 2nd, 3rd and 4th tier students who land these firm jobs without such lofty credentials usually have an otherwise unique or impressive background (i.e. additional graduate/professional degrees, years of work experience, political ties to the firm, etc.).
If you stand to make $125K+ upon graduation, taking out $100K+ in educational loans is no big deal. You have 30 years to pay off your loans, and interest rates on federal loans are still remarkably low.
For example, I consolidated about $80K in federal loans after I graduated and will be paying only about $400/month over the next 30 years. $400 equates to about *one day's work* at my current large firm job (a job I probably would have never have gotten had I not attended a Top 10 school, since I was not a very bright student).
So in sum, the "cost" factor in deciding whether to attend an elite (Top 10-15 school) and a lower-tiered law school should only be a major consideration if you plan to work in a low-paying legal career (public interest/government/non-profit). If you have your sights set on the big bucks of large firm life, you'd really be selling yourself short by attending a lower-ranked school just to save some money. Your job prospects from the lower-ranked school stand to be significantly lessened, and you will have to perform far better in the classroom (relative to your classmates) just to have the same placement opportunities as the slackers at the Top 10-15 schools who don't perform nearly as well as you.
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It may be niave but I have never cared about ranking, not only becase my LSAT score was so lame, but because I have no intention of working at a big law firm where that would matter. After years of being my own boss, I imagine I'll find work at a small to mid-size firm and then eventually start my own practice or partner with one other lawyer. Who knows though. Right now I have to concentrate on getting in somewhere this year or next.